[CYC]

I am new to this forum and would like to share my experience with you guys regarding an automation software (bought by my faculty) which I have used for my university project. The name of the software is "AUTOMGEN". Firstly, you can use this software to write PLC programs in LD, FBD, SFC (can be simulated) and then with the purchased PLC post-processors (ABB, Siemens, Omron, Mitsubushi, Alan Bradley, Festo, etc...) we can download to the PLC type connected to the PC. They have about 30+ post processors, I think.

Besides this, they also come with pneumatic, hydraulic, digital electronic and electrical symbol libraries for circuit construction which can be simulated electrically, mechanically or using PLC program. For the more advanced users, they can also import 2D and 3D drawing files and simulate the object with the configured I/Os in respect to the PLC program.

Finally, as an option, we can also add a PCI I/O interface card with 8 I/Os or 16I/Os and connect the inputs and outputs of the PLC program from the PC to interface with actual components (switches, solenoid, etc...)

I am not promoting this software but just to share with you all that there is such a software available in the market. For those of you interested to know the local supplier of this product, may email to me. Meanwhile, I will check with my lecturer the supplier's contact. My email is srilojing@gmail.com

[markmeng]

Sounds too good to be true.

Easy to find it out by google. Not much information from their website, just a few pages pdf file. Seems to be good for education. Anyway it sounds a very good idea, and "good" ideas always come from French... merci!

[kongming]

I am new to this forum and would like to share my experience with you guys regarding an automation software (bought by my faculty) which I have used for my university project. The name of the software is "AUTOMGEN". Firstly, you can use this software to write PLC programs in LD, FBD, SFC (can be simulated) and then with the purchased PLC post-processors (ABB, Siemens, Omron, Mitsubushi, Alan Bradley, Festo, etc...) we can download to the PLC type connected to the PC. They have about 30+ post processors, I think.

Besides this, they also come with pneumatic, hydraulic, digital electronic and electrical symbol libraries for circuit construction which can be simulated electrically, mechanically or using PLC program. For the more advanced users, they can also import 2D and 3D drawing files and simulate the object with the configured I/Os in respect to the PLC program.

Finally, as an option, we can also add a PCI I/O interface card with 8 I/Os or 16I/Os and connect the inputs and outputs of the PLC program from the PC to interface with actual components (switches, solenoid, etc...)

I am not promoting this software but just to share with you all that there is such a software available in the market. For those of you interested to know the local supplier of this product, may email to me. Meanwhile, I will check with my lecturer the supplier's contact. My email is srilojing@gmail.com

I think this software is meant primarily for education in contex of getting to know the automation industry. Becuase of number of layers created for the programs to be so user-friendly with just a few clicks of the mouse, it seems that it is not meant to be use industrially for heavy duty automation machines. While I may be wrong, it would be great if there is already someone testing out industrial applications with this software, but from what I read from the web, its currently still an educational tool.

[CYC]

I think this software is meant primarily for education in contex of getting to know the automation industry. Becuase of number of layers created for the programs to be so user-friendly with just a few clicks of the mouse, it seems that it is not meant to be use industrially for heavy duty automation machines. While I may be wrong, it would be great if there is already someone testing out industrial applications with this software, but from what I read from the web, its currently still an educational tool.

Yes, I agreed with you that it is a great tool for education. I still remember that in our Automation Lab, we used to have 4 to 5 PLCs and each one is being programmed by its own proprietory software. I think many of us working in the manufacturing industries also faced this problem as our machines comes from all over the world, such as Japanese machines will normally use OMRON or MITSUBISHI PLCs and European normally comes with SIEMENS, ALLAN-BRADLEY, etc... Imagine trying to be well verse with all these PLCs programming command all the time.

In other word, I do not totally agreed that this software is only meant for education purpose but it would be a brilliant idea to kick start it as an educational tool so that future engineers are able and aware that there are such a software available which is IEC compliant. Many engineers would prefer to buy and use the PLC which they are familiar with even some models already been obsolete and that manufacturers now sells their programming software licenses which was once upon a time given free of charge.

In my humble opinion, I feel that this software is a gift to the manufacturing industries which is so user friendly that some of you thinks that it is for education only and not allpicable to industrial application. A PLC is a PLC, and a program is always a program and as long as it can be downloaded to a "real" PLC and function, there is not differences as "education" and "industrial" anymore. Unless someone can tell me that what we learn in education are "educational PLCs" which differs from the industrial ones. Remember, it is easy to make simple things complicated and difficult to make complicated things simple.

I sincerely hope that some of you out there to try download the software (trial version) and test it out before commenting further on your own perception. BTW, just found out that the distributor in Malaysia is Juravic Enginnering, located in Kuala Lumpur. www.juravic.com.my

"A diamond will not shine unless we have it polished"

CYC

[Ahmad]

Yes, I agreed with you that it is a great tool for education. I still remember that in our Automation Lab, we used to have 4 to 5 PLCs and each one is being programmed by its own proprietory software. I think many of us working in the manufacturing industries also faced this problem as our machines comes from all over the world, such as Japanese machines will normally use OMRON or MITSUBISHI PLCs and European normally comes with SIEMENS, ALLAN-BRADLEY, etc... Imagine trying to be well verse with all these PLCs programming command all the time.

In other word, I do not totally agreed that this software is only meant for education purpose but it would be a brilliant idea to kick start it as an educational tool so that future engineers are able and aware that there are such a software available which is IEC compliant. Many engineers would prefer to buy and use the PLC which they are familiar with even some models already been obsolete and that manufacturers now sells their programming software licenses which was once upon a time given free of charge.

In my humble opinion, I feel that this software is a gift to the manufacturing industries which is so user friendly that some of you thinks that it is for education only and not allpicable to industrial application. A PLC is a PLC, and a program is always a program and as long as it can be downloaded to a "real" PLC and function, there is not differences as "education" and "industrial" anymore. Unless someone can tell me that what we learn in education are "educational PLCs" which differs from the industrial ones. Remember, it is easy to make simple things complicated and difficult to make complicated things simple.

I sincerely hope that some of you out there to try download the software (trial version) and test it out before commenting further on your own perception. BTW, just found out that the distributor in Malaysia is Juravic Enginnering, located in Kuala Lumpur. www.juravic.com.my

"A diamond will not shine unless we have it polished"

CYC

First of all I would like to thanks CYC for sharing this wonderful PLC programming & automation software with us. I am a lecturer in one of the local university in Malaysia and doing research on Industrial Automation in today's technology world. One of the topic which I am interested in was trying to have one common PLC programming software for all types of PLCs in the market. Of course currently there are some proprietory PLC prgamming softwares produced by some PLC manufacturers which already have IEC1311 compliance and can convert the PLC program to other PLCs by buying the drivers of the said PLC type. However, these PLC programming software are either very expensive or they will sell some of the "drivers" for other PLCs at a very high price, o discourage users to use the software for other PLC types.

For those of you (old timers), I think you have heard or perhaps used a software called "CADEPA" from CANADA before, which is similar to Automgen but very expensive (those days only available in DOS only). But understand that it is no more in the market (die of natural death).

Also, thanks for providing the local supplier website. I will definately going to find out more information and perhaps download the trial version and contact the local supplier for detail information and support which I think is very important.

Once again, thanks CYC for the valuable piece of information.

Ahmad

[Stephane MASSART]

Thank you for helping us to make AUTOMGEN a more known software. We (IRAI company) are building this software since 18 years. IRAI is a small french company compared to other automation software companies. We have about 30 resellers around the world.
AUTOMGEN is used for education purpose, however, it is also used in industrial applications, sometimes for huge applications (nuclear by exemple).
Do not hesitate to contact me if you need more informations about AUTOMGEN.
Stephane MASSART

[M.Pathma]

Thank you for helping us to make AUTOMGEN a more known software. We (IRAI company) are building this software since 18 years. IRAI is a small french company compared to other automation software companies. We have about 30 resellers around the world.
AUTOMGEN is used for education purpose, however, it is also used in industrial applications, sometimes for huge applications (nuclear by exemple).
Do not hesitate to contact me if you need more informations about AUTOMGEN.
Stephane MASSART

The creator have spoken, I think the debate on "can this be used for industries" over, now the best will be some industrial related project example.

Anyone can share their experience using this AUTOMEG in real automation project.

Another factor will be the final cost , most of us already have the software+hardware to program few type of PLC, so, will you buy AUTOMEG and replace/educate and training your team AGAIN.

[kongming]

AS I agreed with Pathma, I do believe this software will be a 'gem' in both educationally and industrially, but we would definitely like to see some project examples of this use, especially in industrial usage.

perhaps the creator can share some examples with us?

[kakashi]

The creator have spoken, I think the debate on "can this be used for industries" over, now the best will be some industrial related project example.

Anyone can share their experience using this AUTOMEG in real automation project.

Another factor will be the final cost , most of us already have the software+hardware to program few type of PLC, so, will you buy AUTOMEG and replace/educate and training your team AGAIN.

AS I agreed with Pathma, I do believe this software will be a 'gem' in both educationally and industrially, but we would definitely like to see some project examples of this use, especially in industrial usage.

perhaps the creator can share some examples with us?

I think the distributor for Autogem in Malaysia, posted something in this thread...
http://forums.ia-com...6&st=0#entry910

I can't attend the seminar, but if Stephane MASSART or Juravic can kindly post some information and examples here which M.Pathma and Kongming were discussing about here, I (and I believe everyone else) would appreciate it. Thanks!

[Stephane MASSART]

I think the distributor for Autogem in Malaysia, posted something in this thread...
http://forums.ia-com...6&st=0#entry910

I can't attend the seminar, but if Stephane MASSART or Juravic can kindly post some information and examples here which M.Pathma and Kongming were discussing about here, I (and I believe everyone else) would appreciate it. Thanks!

A 40 days trial version of AUTOMGEN is available here : http://www.irai.com/a7/a7103setup.exe
This version includes many samples.
Video demonstrations (showing main AUTOMGEN functionalities) with audio comments are available here : http://www.irai.com/gallery_e.htm

I asked FAMIC UK our partner in UK for adding on this forum a message explaining how they used AUTOMGEN for nuclear application.

This post has been edited by Stephane MASSART: 31 March 2006 - 03:32 PM

[techgeek]

This software seems like an solution to the headaches of PLC programmming.... and I am sure the potential is great.... just saw the thread about the seminar on the software in Malaysia, but what about Singapore, Thailand or Indonesia, wonder if there is anything similar that will be going on by country levels? Whose the distributor for Singapore anyway?

[dilip]

A 40 days trial version of AUTOMGEN is available here : http://www.irai.com/a7/a7103setup.exe
This version includes many samples.
Video demonstrations (showing main AUTOMGEN functionalities) with audio comments are available here : http://www.irai.com/gallery_e.htm

I asked FAMIC UK our partner in UK for adding on this forum a message explaining how they used AUTOMGEN for nuclear application.

We at Famic UK sell AUTOMGEN into the Education market, industrial market and also use AUTOMGEN for industrail projects.
We had a new post processor developed by IRAI, the manufacturers of AUTOMGEN, for the GEM 80 PLC so that we could implement two Medium/Large size projects for the UK Automic Energy Authories.
These projects were successfully implemented with AUTOMGEN.
We are also using the Mitsubishi interface for some of our in-house projects.

[James]

A 40 days trial version of AUTOMGEN is available here : http://www.irai.com/a7/a7103setup.exe
This version includes many samples.
Video demonstrations (showing main AUTOMGEN functionalities) with audio comments are available here : http://www.irai.com/gallery_e.htm

I asked FAMIC UK our partner in UK for adding on this forum a message explaining how they used AUTOMGEN for nuclear application.

Hi Stephane, Automgen is an interesting software & based on the interest shown I guess everyone in the forum have more interest of it to be used in an industry setting, to address the age-old question of opening-up the platform of PLC programming; no longer \limited to different programming software for different PLC brands. Have vendors like Siemens, Allen Bradley endorse your tool to create fully compatible code that can run on their hardware? I guess to provide support for more types of PLCs, development needs to be continuos for different drivers, I think similar to SCADA software preference will be given to popular brands. Is there any facility for smaller PLC players to create add-ins to Autogem? Again, I think everyone is interested in how Autogem works & the process the software does to make PLC code compatible with one another.

[Stephane MASSART]

Hi Stephane, Automgen is an interesting software & based on the interest shown I guess everyone in the forum have more interest of it to be used in an industry setting, to address the age-old question of opening-up the platform of PLC programming; no longer \limited to different programming software for different PLC brands. Have vendors like Siemens, Allen Bradley endorse your tool to create fully compatible code that can run on their hardware? I guess to provide support for more types of PLCs, development needs to be continuos for different drivers, I think similar to SCADA software preference will be given to popular brands. Is there any facility for smaller PLC players to create add-ins to Autogem? Again, I think everyone is interested in how Autogem works & the process the software does to make PLC code compatible with one another.

Dear James,
In fact PLC manufacturers are generally very big companies compared to us. Sometimes manufacturers help us by giving us technical informations for building post-processors, sometimes we need to use reverse engineering for creating them. Regarding the possibilities to use AUTOMGEN for smaller PLC manufacturer, as I said, we are a small company and, of course, we like to work with other companies around the world for promoting AUTOMGEN. Building new post-processors with other companies is a part of this promotion for us. Generally we build new post-processor for free in exchange of promoting AUTOMGEN as development platform. AUTOMGEN uses the concept of "pivot code" very similar to RISC processor and called "AUTOMGEN language". All the languages usable in AUTOMGEN (SFC, ladder, litteral, etc...) are translated in AUTOMGEN language with a limited instructions number. Post-processors only know how to convert this small number of instuction in each PLC language. So creation of a new post-processor stays a "human" job.

[hafizan]

I'm hafizan.I'm student from university of Malaya.Now,I was doing my thesis.My thesis is about product design and PLC programming to drive a stepper motor.I decided to used siemens s7-200 in my faculty lab.i would like to know how to connect PLC to the motor.Can i connect directly to the motor?Or the motor need module/electric circuit to drive the motor?For the PLC programming i used AUTOMGEN7.the output that i want to get is the motor can rotate clockwise and counterclockwise,cant rotate in a certain angle and also can control the speed of motor.

I was develop a PLC programming in Automgen software.The PLC programming to drive the stepper motor.So,now i want to know how to do a simulation on the motor motion?How to make a 3D simulation on motor?The output is motor can rotate clockwise and anticlockwise and also can control speed of the motor.now,i want to show the 3D simulation on the motor.I was draw 3D part in Pro-Engineer.can i import Pro-Engineer files into 3D simulation consule in Automgen

I hope anyone can help me.Thank you

[Johnson Lukose]

I'm hafizan.I'm student from university of Malaya.Now,I was doing my thesis.My thesis is about product design and PLC programming to drive a stepper motor.I decided to used siemens s7-200 in my faculty lab.i would like to know how to connect PLC to the motor.Can i connect directly to the motor?Or the motor need module/electric circuit to drive the motor?For the PLC programming i used AUTOMGEN7.the output that i want to get is the motor can rotate clockwise and counterclockwise,cant rotate in a certain angle and also can control the speed of motor.

I was develop a PLC programming in Automgen software.The PLC programming to drive the stepper motor.So,now i want to know how to do a simulation on the motor motion?How to make a 3D simulation on motor?The output is motor can rotate clockwise and anticlockwise and also can control speed of the motor.now,i want to show the 3D simulation on the motor.I was draw 3D part in Pro-Engineer.can i import Pro-Engineer files into 3D simulation consule in Automgen

I hope anyone can help me.Thank you

This is easy - this information is available at the Siemens website. Go go http://www.automation.siemens.com to find all the information you need and much more... all the manuals you need plus application examples. Yes, they have a reference for stepper motor control!

thanks.

[James]

I'm hafizan.I'm student from university of Malaya.Now,I was doing my thesis.My thesis is about product design and PLC programming to drive a stepper motor.I decided to used siemens s7-200 in my faculty lab.i would like to know how to connect PLC to the motor.Can i connect directly to the motor?Or the motor need module/electric circuit to drive the motor?For the PLC programming i used AUTOMGEN7.the output that i want to get is the motor can rotate clockwise and counterclockwise,cant rotate in a certain angle and also can control the speed of motor.

I was develop a PLC programming in Automgen software.The PLC programming to drive the stepper motor.So,now i want to know how to do a simulation on the motor motion?How to make a 3D simulation on motor?The output is motor can rotate clockwise and anticlockwise and also can control speed of the motor.now,i want to show the 3D simulation on the motor.I was draw 3D part in Pro-Engineer.can i import Pro-Engineer files into 3D simulation consule in Automgen

I hope anyone can help me.Thank you

Hi Hafizan,

To control a stepper motor; if you already have a stepper driver, you'll need a hardware that can contol the stepper. There are usually 2 signals, step\pulse (number of pulses = number of steps. E.g., if you have a 400 step/revolution motor, each pulse would control the stepper to turn 1.8 deg) & direction (a state change to tell the motor to go clockwise or counter clockwise).
Also, a stepper could be open loop control or closed loop control. For simple start stop control, you just need to write a ladder logic program to generate the number of pulses & on/off to control the direction. Another type of control uses CW\CCW (2 pulses out of phase, where the lead-lag determines the direction. The tricky part of motion control is when you need control exactly the velocity, acceleration & deceleration in real-time. In this case, you'll need to calculate & determine varying speed of pulses in real-time to compensate & feedback to the system to achieve the required position. This might also inolve complex algorithms like PID etc. Things start to get complicated when you need to do motion blending, like controlling an XYZ table or CNC which a low end PLC like the S7-200 cannot achieve (as PLC processing is not able to do very complex floating point math). In this case, its better to use a PAC or a dedicated motion controller. As for the 3D animation; you can import a 3D format file created in AutoCAD or Pro-E (.ase, stl, or vrml) into NI LabVIEW 8.20 & ou can acquire the encoder signals from the motor to animate the real-time position of the motor (obviously, you can simulate it as well). Here's the link http://zone.ni.com/d...a/tut/p/id/3170

Hope the info helps. If you're from UM's Advanced Manufacturing dept, you can ask around for advise from some of your colleague that's using LabVIEW for monitoring & control applications. Good luck!

[Chee KM]

Hi, Hafizan,

You can consider Hollysys PLC which provides you free IEC61131-3 Programing Software (LD, ST, FBD, SFC, CFC, IL) with Graphical animation as well.

[Johnson Lukose]

Hi Hafizan,

To control a stepper motor; if you already have a stepper driver, you'll need a hardware that can contol the stepper. There are usually 2 signals, step\pulse (number of pulses = number of steps. E.g., if you have a 400 step/revolution motor, each pulse would control the stepper to turn 1.8 deg) & direction (a state change to tell the motor to go clockwise or counter clockwise).
Also, a stepper could be open loop control or closed loop control. For simple start stop control, you just need to write a ladder logic program to generate the number of pulses & on/off to control the direction. Another type of control uses CW\CCW (2 pulses out of phase, where the lead-lag determines the direction. The tricky part of motion control is when you need control exactly the velocity, acceleration & deceleration in real-time. In this case, you'll need to calculate & determine varying speed of pulses in real-time to compensate & feedback to the system to achieve the required position. This might also inolve complex algorithms like PID etc. Things start to get complicated when you need to do motion blending, like controlling an XYZ table or CNC which a low end PLC like the S7-200 cannot achieve (as PLC processing is not able to do very complex floating point math). In this case, its better to use a PAC or a dedicated motion controller. As for the 3D animation; you can import a 3D format file created in AutoCAD or Pro-E (.ase, stl, or vrml) into NI LabVIEW 8.20 & ou can acquire the encoder signals from the motor to animate the real-time position of the motor (obviously, you can simulate it as well). Here's the link http://zone.ni.com/d...a/tut/p/id/3170

Hope the info helps. If you're from UM's Advanced Manufacturing dept, you can ask around for advise from some of your colleague that's using LabVIEW for monitoring & control applications. Good luck!

This is the first I've heard of stepper motor - closed loop control??

Please enlighten us.

You could do stepper motor control with a < RM1000 PLC! It is one of the basic applications for a PLC.

thanks.

[hafizan]

hi Stephane MASSART,

I have draw the 3D drawing of my system.i drawing the 3D part using Pro-Engineer software.And then i assembly all the part.Can the 3D drawing in Pro-Enginner import to Automgen?How to import it?The motor is connected to the system to move the whole system.So,now i want to know how to do a simulation on the motor motion using Automgen?How to make a 3D simulation on motor?The output is motor can rotate clockwise and anticlockwise and also can control speed of the motor.now,i want to show the 3D simulation on the motor.

Thank you for helping us to make AUTOMGEN a more known software. We (IRAI company) are building this software since 18 years. IRAI is a small french company compared to other automation software companies. We have about 30 resellers around the world.
AUTOMGEN is used for education purpose, however, it is also used in industrial applications, sometimes for huge applications (nuclear by exemple).
Do not hesitate to contact me if you need more informations about AUTOMGEN.
Stephane MASSART